More The Pragmatic Engineer episodes
Published 12 Feb 2026
Duration: 6250
Kotlin, a language designed to improve on Java, has evolved from an IDE plugin to a full-featured programming language with significant traction, particularly after being endorsed by Google.
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The podcast covers the development and evolution of Kotlin, focusing on its design roots in languages like Scala, C#, and Groovy. It was created to address Java's limitations by reducing boilerplate code, improving null safety, and enhancing code readability and productivity. Kotlin's interoperability with Java was a key design goal, allowing developers to use existing Java libraries and code seamlessly. The language gained significant popularity after Google officially endorsed it as the preferred language for Android development in 2017, which caught its creators by surprise.
The creation of Kotlin was a long and complex process, initially beginning as an IDE plugin before evolving into a full-featured programming language. The design involved challenges related to syntax and type systems, such as the decision to omit the ternary operator, which is now seen as a regret. The discussion also touches on broader topics like the balance between static and dynamic languages, the complexity of maintaining backward compatibility, and how enterprise needs and AI advancements are shaping programming trends. The conversation ends with a look toward the future, including the creators work on CodeSpeak, a language that leverages natural language and AI to simplify coding by translating human intent into executable code using large language models.
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